Comments on: National Parks To Start Charging Photographers “Location Fees” http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/ The latest news about the top pixel wrangling application on the planet. Tue, 28 May 2013 20:20:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: Ken Duncan http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2733 Ken Duncan Mon, 08 May 2006 02:25:57 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2733 ANSWER TO PHOTOSHOPNEWS – PHOTOGRAPHERS RIGHTS
Corrected Article

Wake up America as this is the thin edge of the wedge. We have tried to warn you that heavy changes are coming to your parks system as we have really coped it down here and it still is getting worse.
As photographers we all want to see the beauty of nature preserved. We also understand that any body wanting to take Photographs that is possible going to have an adverse impact on our natural wonders then that person should pay to have Park people present so there is no damage done to the resource for future generations. The trouble is, we as Landscape photographers are being bundled in with the bigger impact users. I read some remarks on your forum that Ansel Adams would still be able to take his photos but I can guarantee from our history here in Australia that that will not be the case. As bureaucracy works in small bites taking your rights slowly until one day you wake up and say how did we ever allow this to Happen.
We have tried to warn you as fellow Photographer. We even sent an article to outdoor Photography but they didn’t even bother to respond as I presume their attitude was, how could anything happening Down under effect mighty America?
If you think these changes are bad this is only the beginning, year by year they will get worse. The Parks system will bombard you with reports that are hundreds of pages long all in the name of bio diversity and environmental protection or wording like this. These terms sort of sound good because as Landscape photographers we are all about protecting the beauty of creation. This is what really motivates most landscape photographers, the desire to show the wonder of creation and spend time in it. But seeded through these documents will be paragraphs that affect greatly our ability and rights to take photos of nature as we have been able to in the past. Then just when you are trying to get your head around the changes that Parks are trying to impose then there will be more documentation. We as photographers begin to feel overwhelmed and wonder how bureaucrats ever came up with such regulations. We are busy just trying to make a living at what we love. By this point the changes will then start to be about Parks owning the intellectual property rights on the natural phenomena. For anyone to use photos of their park they will have to pay royalties to the park. So when a photographer takes a photo they will say he owns the copyright on the photo but he won’t. The photographer’s rights will be overridden by the copyrights issues of the park. By Parks will get you to sign permission forms to take photographs in their parks. These forms will start sort of innocently and then head towards the direction of having wording like, photographers may use the images to promote only things which are appropriate to Park values. Of course when you actually ask the park to state there values they will try to avoid that or otherwise photographers will then see how screwed they are. Really in the end it is all about copyright over natural creation if the Parks or individuals get this then they can control the usages of all photographers work as this is where these people think the money is. Another thing that will also appear in Parks documents is that relating to traditional values of indigenous groups. This is really open ended, as some small group of people all of a sudden believes that a certain part of nature is of spiritual importance and should not be shown because of their ever changing beliefs. Of course if you pay them the appropriate amount of money then these thing maybe able to be got around.
Now when Parks and Groups get intellectual property rights on the natural creation this then puts them in the position of power and then allows them to deal with image libraries who buy the rights for image usages for the areas in question.
These idiotic pencil pushing bureaucrats see photographers making money and they have this grand delusion that they are making a fortune out of images from their Parks and they want a bit of the action. They have this false impression that photographers are in it for the money and they want their pound of flesh. The reality in fact is quite different most landscape photographers are doing what they do because of the life stile and their love of nature and with out our gifts and talent many of these parks would never have come to the attention of the nation unless photographers had opened people eyes to these beautiful locations. It is ironic that now we the ones who where used to champion the cause of protection of our natural wonders are now being put in the crosshairs of the bureaucrats guns. They should not be shooting the messengers who have helped them but benefit from the additional tourism that our expose has bought their parks. What they need to do is manage their park fee incomes better and work with photographers to provide their own Official Park products where all the proceeds go back to the upkeep of the park. This would make far more for them than any fees they want to charge. It doesn’t mean that they restrict other people selling product in the parks as they are already making a hundred percent mark up on those products that they buy from suppliers (far more than the photographers) The Parks have a great market advantage. What person would not support the park product if they new the proceeds were going back to the upkeep of the resource. This is true user pays as people want to buy souvenirs of their visit so this is a way for the parks to really benefit from the increased tourism and give them extra finances to manage their areas.
Down under In Australia the restrictions on photography are out of control and representatives of your parks services have come here to see how they operate in view of incorporating changes into your park service. The main Park they have been looking at is Uluru Kata Tjuta National Park here in Australia and this has been spoken of as a great example of Park Management yet it is off the planet and totally out of touch with reality. Photographers are treated like criminals at this location and restriction are so great that it is a real sorrow to be even out their as you are made to feel like a opportunist. The restrictions on where you can shoot are so bad that it really will upset any landscape photographer. The rangers in these parks have the power to arrest you and remove you from the park as well as confiscate your equipment. They can also fine you tens of thousands of dollars if you breach any of their regulations. And when they take you to court and intimidate you with legal action the government pays for all their expenses and you the lone photographer have to deal with all your own expenses. This would be sad enough if it was only happening at this Park but now the cancer is spreading all throughout Australia on all levels Federal, State and Local councils.
In Australia we are so upset at what is happening with the loss of our freedoms as Artists that we have set up a new group called Arts Freedom Australia and it is acting as a group to get different photographic groups together to start fighting back.
Please America, take this threat on your freedom seriously or otherwise you will have to fight to regain stolen rights. Just as we having to do now.
Good Luck And God Bless you as your fight will not be just for you but will strengthen our resolve.
Ken Duncan
Landscape Photographer
Australia

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By: Ken Duncan http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2732 Ken Duncan Mon, 08 May 2006 02:10:29 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2732 Wake up America as this is the thin edge of the wedge. We have tried to warn you that heavy changes are coming to your parks system as we have realy coped it down here and it still is getting worse.
As photographers we all want to see the beauty of nature perserved. We also understand that any body wanting to take Photographs that is possible going to have an adverse impact on our natural wonders then that person should pay to have Park people present so there is no damage done to the resourse for future generations. The trouble is, we as Landscape photogrhers are being bundled in with the bigger impact users. I read some remarks on your forum that Ansel Adams would still be able to take his photos but I can gaurantee from our history here in Australia that that will not be the case. As beauracy works in small bites taking your rights slowly until one day you wake up and say how did we ever allow this to Happen.
We have tried to warn you as fellow Photographer. We even sent an article to outdoor Photography but they didn’t even bother to respond as I pressume their attitude was, how could anything happening Downunder effect mighty America?
If you think these changes are bad this is only the beginning, year by year they will get worse. The Parks system will bombard you with reports that are hundreds of pages long all in the name of bio diversite and enviromental protection or wording like this. These terms sort of sound good because as Landscape photographers we are all about protecting the beauty of creation. This is what really motivates most landscape photographers, the desire to show the wonder of creation and spend time in it. But seeded through these documents will be paragraphs that effect greatly our ability and rights to take photos of nature as we have been able to in the past. Then just when you are trying to get your head around the changes that Parks are trying to impose then there will be more documentation. We as photograhers begin to feel overwhelmed and wonder how beauracrates ever came up with such regulations. We are busy just trying to make a living at what we love. By this point the changes will then start to be about Parks owning the interlectual property rights on the natural phenomina. For anyone to use photos of their park they will have to pay royalties to the park. So when a photographer takes a photo they will say he owns the copyright on the photo but he won’t. The photographers rights will be overriden by the copyrights issues of the park. By Parks will get you to sign permission forms to take photographs in their parks. These forms will start sort of inocently and then head towards the direction of having wording like, photographers may use the images to promote only things which are appropriate to Park values. Of course when you actually ask the park to state there values they will try to avoid that or otherwise photographers will then see how screwed they are. Really in the end it is all about copyright over natural creation if the Parks or individuals get this then they can control the usages of all photographers work as tis is where these people think the money is. Another thing that will also appear in Parks documents is that relating to traditional values of indiginous groups. This is really open ended, as some small group of people all of a sudden believes that a certain part of nature is of spiritual importance and should not be showen because of their ever changing beliefs. Of course if you pay them the apprpriate amount of money then these thing maybe able to be got around.
Now when Parks and Groups get interlectual proprty rights on the natural creation this then puts them in the possition of power and then allows them to deal with image libarys who buy the rights for image usages for the areas in question.
These idiotic pencil pushing burecrates see photographers making money and they have this grand dillusion that they are making a fortune out of images from their Parks and they want a bit of the action. They have this false impression that photographers are in it for the money and they want their pound of flesh. The reality in fact is quite diffent most landscape photographers are doing what they do because of the life stile and their love of nature and with out our gifts and talent many of these parks would never have come to the attention of the nation unless photographers had opened people eyes to these beautiful locations. It is ironic that now we the ones who where used to champion the cause of protection of our natural wonders are now being put in the crosshairs of the beauracates guns. They should not be shooting the messengers who have helped them but benifit from the additional tourism that our expose has bought their parks. What they need to do is manage their park fee incomes better and work with photographers to provide their own Official Park products where all the proceeds go back to the upkeep of the park. This would make far more for them than any fees they want to charge. It doestn’t mean that they restrict other people selling product in the parks as they are already making a hundred percent mark up on those products that they buy from supliers (far more than the photographers) The Parks have a great market advantage. What person would not support the park product if they new the proceeds were going back to the upkeep of the resource. This is true user pays as people want to buy soveniers of their visit so this is a way for the parks to really benifit from the increased tourism and give them extra finances to manage their areas.

DownunderIn Australia the restrictions on photography are out of control and representitives of your parks services have come here to see how they operate in view of incorporatiing changes into your park service. The main Park they have been looking at is Uluru Kata Tjuta National Park here in Australia and this has been spoken of as agreat example of Park Management yet it is off the planet and totally out of touch with reality. Photographers are treated like criminals at this location and restriction are so great that it is a real sorrow to be even out their as you are made to feel like a oppertunist. The restriction on where you can shoot are so bad that it really will upset any landscape photographer. The rangers in these parks have the power to arrest you and remove you from the park as well as confiscate your equipment. They can also fine you tens of thousands of dollars if you breach any of their regulations. And when they take you to court and intimidate you with legal action the government pays for all their expenses and you the lone photographer have to deal with all your own expenses. This would be sad enough if it was only happening at this Park but now the cancer is spreading all throughout Australia on all levels Federal, State and Local councils.
In Australia we are so upset at what is happening with the loss of our freedoms as Artists that we have set up a new group called Arts Freedom Australia and it is acting as a group to get different photographic groups together to start fighting back.
Please America take this threat on your freedom seriousl or otherwise you will have to fight to regain stolen rights. Just as we having to do now.

Good Luck And God Bless you as your fight will not be just for you but will strenghten our resolve.

Ken Duncan
Landscape Photographer
Australia

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By: Koz http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2685 Koz Wed, 03 May 2006 15:48:14 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2685 This is really no different than policies currently in place at some of the more sought-after parks. I have been shooting professional video in national parks, national forests and on BLM land for the last decade and every single time I needed to file for a permit before any shooting took place. Sometimes we were charged a fee for filing the paperwork, sometimes they call it a “location fee”. I shot in Sedona 8 years ago and they waived the normal $250/day commercial shoot fee because we were small (2 guys) and our activities “did not disturb the land” aka digging up stuff or cutting down trees. Yet, the week before, apparently, a crew shooting a mountain bike video used a chopper (without permit) in some sensitive areas.

On a different project we worked with a national forest to produce a historical documentary on the area and we were actually allowed to shoot in a federal wilderness aera (unprecidented). Since we were deemed non-commercial we were allowed in the wilderness area. We still had to file the paperwork but all fees were waived.

I hear Grand Canyon will cost you the most. Actually, the federal fees are quite tame compared to shooting in, say, Monument Valley, where location fees are in the thousands per day, and doesnt even include your required Native American guide.

As far as Ansel Adams goes, there is no fee or need for a permit for fine art photography. The feds only want a way to fund the studies they’re required to do before you haul your talent and props and craft services trailers and occupy a site for 3 days with that new Jeep Wrangler perched on the edge of the cliff.

This “new” rule puts into writing what most parks and forests have been doing independently for years.

BK

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By: Ho Yin Au http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2649 Ho Yin Au Tue, 02 May 2006 08:48:13 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2649 After reading the link posted by Dwayne Bradley, I think that you’re generally safe if you follow the general guidelines and principles of Leave No Trace ( see http://www.lnt.org/ )… it appears that the NPS wants to make sure that whatever you’re doing aren’t impacting the environment, and that if you are, you’re paying a fee for any impact/damage they have to take care of.

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By: Charles Geer http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2643 Charles Geer Mon, 01 May 2006 21:16:05 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2643 What would Ansel Adams say if he had to pay every time he shot pictures at Yosemite?

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By: Dwayne Bradley http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2642 Dwayne Bradley Mon, 01 May 2006 20:21:58 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2642 You might want to read this:

http://www.nps.gov/dena/home/visitorinfo/programs/propho/cfguidelines.html

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By: Phil Pool http://photoshopnews.com/2006/05/01/national-parks-to-start-charging-photographers-location-fees/comment-page-1/#comment-2641 Phil Pool Mon, 01 May 2006 19:51:59 +0000 http://photoshopnews.com/?p=1150#comment-2641 After living 28 yrs. in CA. and moving back to Iowa two years ago, I’d be livid if I felt I couldn’t go and enjoy photographing my family clients in the beauty of our national parks.

Large film companies that will make millions of dollars will be able to afford to pay a fee and should, because many times they bring many people and trucks into the parks and can cause interupptions.

Small businesses that will take portraits or do landscape photography should be treated no differently than a tourist.

This is an unfair form of more taxation and will do more harm than good.

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